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Permalink Reply by Matthew Helstein on January 10, 2008 at 12:11am

Dance War was rather unimpressive. I find the premise of looking for a singer/dancer less than intriguing. I want to see people do THE ONE THING they do best, not 1/2 to 3/4 ass their way through a song and a dance. Even the ones that I sort of like are by no means on the level of what I have come to expect, due to shows like SYTYCD. I can say however that I am VERY EXCITED to see how SYTYCD:Australia turns out, the Aussie AI has always been stronger than the American one IMO and the trailers we've seen of Aussie SYTYCD show a lot of really impressive talent. Of course I'm still hoping for new Canadian SYTYCD info as well.

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Permalink Reply by Toni on January 14, 2008 at 6:17pm

I agree. Hopefully, Dance War won't become a trend as it is truly awful. They've managed to abuse both song and dance!!

And, even though I am very, VERY grateful for SYTYCD, there is still room for growth.

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Permalink Reply by Movmnt Magazine on January 30, 2008 at 12:19am

Do you think that the new shows are going to have second class performers that didn't make it to the top 20 of Sytycd? How much do you think the original shows are are going to suffer from so many dance shows at the same time on National Television? I am really curious to know what you guys think about it.

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Permalink Reply by Matthew Helstein on January 30, 2008 at 2:06am

We've already seen that actually. With Anthony Bryant on Dance War, and Jamal and Enok on America's best dance crew. I'm sure there have been more, we don't see them all, so it's hard to know. The dance world is a rather small place, and from what I've seen and the little I've experienced most dancers try out for every big break they can. So if they didn't make it somewhere else, why not try on a different show, or for a different performer.

I don't think we're necessarily getting second rate talent however. A lot of the dancers that have been denied entrance into the top 20 on Sytycd are brilliant dancers. Look at Deja and Anthony, few could say they aren't very talented, and very strong at what they do, and yet they have yet to make it into the top 20.

I think it's also important to realize how much growth a dancer can have in under a year. If they really push their bodies and really train they can accomplish a lot. Some of these dancers that may have been too weak a year ago may be more than ready for the next step.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Graham on February 4, 2008 at 1:23pm

I think that with SYTYCD they may not always make their decisions based specifically on who is the most technically talented dancer for a reason. I mean, don't get me wrong, the dancers that make it far on the show are all first rate imo, but the competition isn't about finding the best dancer, it's about finding "America's favorite dancer". Because of that, the judges are going to be looking at other things like how entertaining the person is, they still have to look at whether the person can dance or not, but that isn't the only thing they need to look at.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Graham on February 4, 2008 at 3:17pm

That's true, and I'm not saying that the favorite dancer can't be the best technical dancer, I'm saying that it doesn't HAVE to be. And yeah, the judges sometimes critique technically great performances badly because of the stage chemistry. If the chemistry isn't there, sometimes it isn't as great to watch, which is why sometimes when dancers have a lot of chemistry, but the dance isn't technically great, they get praise, because although they didn't necessarily dance it perfectly, they kept the magic there, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it makes sense.

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Permalink Reply by Anjuli on February 4, 2008 at 4:25pm

Honestly, all of these dance shows, SYTYCD included, will never be able to capture the artistry and motion of what dance truly is. As with all things in the media, it is about the "look" and the complete package as seen through the eyes of pop culture. These shows are important because they make dance more mainstream and accessible to the common viewer. Some of the most amazing performers would never be on a reality dance show.

But to answer the inquiries, I do think that these offshoots of SYTYCD are going to generate more second rate performers because the nostalgia is gone, and these people are just looking for a break. Not to say that these dancers are not talented or technically sound. The reality dance TV show is an easier "in" to fame. Which means that they are not going to be "original" dancers. If this is their break into the dance world, they are entering a broken niche. Originality and ground breaking persona is what makes a top rate performer, not just talent. After all, dance is art, and copying any artist is truly the demise of a career.

Of course, this is all generalization. I'm not one to say that there won't be a starlet made out of these shows, but I doubt it.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Graham on February 4, 2008 at 4:36pm

I understand your point, but just because it's an easier way to get noticed, it doesn't mean that there won't be originality, or first class dancers on these shows. I agree that many people that get on some of them are probably second class dancers, and aren't very original, or technically perfect, but there are some who are truly top rate.

"dance is art, and copying any artist is truly the demise of a career."

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that, could you elaborate?

Permalink Reply by Anjuli on February 4, 2008 at 5:00pm

What I mean by this is that most (mind you, I'm not saying all) of the dancers coming on to these shows are a copy of previous shows because the reality TV dance star has already been done. Many times. They may become famous from these shows for a while, but as far as their careers, they will be short-lived, unless they continue to evolve as an artist and branch away from being "that dancer on that TV show."

My point is that these shows won't see the spawn of visionaries. Of course there will be talented dancers who will find their careers to be very fruitful from having seeds in the reality show.

There is no doubt that there will be first class dancers, but will there truly be first class artists? You get the difference?

Permalink Reply by Anjuli on February 4, 2008 at 5:02pm

Excuse the petuli wafting your way. I've gotta let the hippie out just a little.

Permalink Reply by Mike Graham on February 4, 2008 at 6:42pm

I see your point, but I still say that there could be some first class artists on these shows. Yes the whole "TV dance reality show" thing has been done, but who's to say that someone that goes on one of these shows can't be a truly brilliant artist? Now, I'm not saying that there are going to be visionaries and true artists popping up everywhere here, I'm just saying that maybe 1 out of the 100,000 that are there could be someone with something amazing to show. I'm just saying that just because they are using the same tools that someone else has used in the past, it doesn't mean that they can't do something new with it.

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Permalink Reply by sassy on February 5, 2008 at 12:10pm

anjuli wrote: "There is no doubt that there will be first class dancers, but will there truly be first class artists?"

Mike Graham replied: "I still say that there could be some first class artists on these shows. . . I'm just saying that maybe 1 out of the 100,000 that are there could be someone with something amazing to show."

Interesting observations, both. I understand anjuli's point about the potential dilution of the art form itself such that a first-class dancer couldn't, by virtue of the show format and/or the audience, exhibit first class artistry. I think there have been enough exceptions on SYTYCD, however, to warrant the "danger." Danny Tidwell is Exhibit A. (There are others.) Despite being handicapped with among the worst edits for what is partly a popularity contest, his first-rate dancing and his insistence on delivering first-rate artistry got him past an edit I doubt any other dancer could have.

I'm GLAD the public got a chance to see him be breathtaking. I sometimes do a "but for" analysis when considering how to assess something. It was no accident that choreographers featured Danny prominently in the group routines. Imagine the Lion King without his regality, his earthiness in that piece, and his corps' experience that helped all the other dancers keep their places. Imagine Hairspray (a little harder to discern b/c of camera shenanigans) without his little bit of extra artistry: a dragged foot after his 540 as punctuation, a head dip right on beat before the men's final choreo combination, in short, his musicality and his sassiness, which suited the piece. And now, imagine Mia's top ten piece without his alchemical mix of power, fluidity, extension, and expressiveness.

I don't think the original shows will suffer from proliferation. If anything, I think the proliferation of sub-par performances on other shows will make the originals that much more compelling and influential. I'm familiar with modern and ballet, so it was easier for me to catch, early, astonishing performances in all three seasons of SYTYCD. Ballroom? Another matter. Nonetheless, and despite the "popular" shows' not approaching competition level ballroom 99% of the time, my untrained eye, by virtue of exposure on SYTYCD, easily caught the difference between some excellent ballroom performances on SYTYCD (with two good dancers, sometimes both or one an expert), and often cringe-worthy performances on Dancing with the Stars (with one expert and one layperson).

I'm a U.S. historian, twentieth century. It's my impression that popular culture is more influential than it has ever been, ever, such that this is the perfect opportunity to expose the "mainstream" to fine art. Hell, when first-rate dancers and artists enter the mainstream, I think they thereby transform what is mainstream; incrementally, perhaps, but that's better than not at all. Given the dedication and passion required to become a first-rate dancer/artist, I am not at all worried that the art forms will be diluted (what -- suddenly Benji Schwimmer becomes a lauded contemporary dancer? Not!). AND, given what I call corporate capture of government and politics, popular culture might well be the best avenue to expose the "general public" to issues of social justice and politics. Musicians and actors are finally getting it: by virtue of where the cameras go because of what people want to see, they have the opportunity to shine the cameras' light on things other than themselves.

Similarly, the medium of television offers a way to get fine art to the general public, to spark their interest, even to educate them. I don't see any other way. Despite a few exceptions here and there on SYTYCD of really NOT first rate dancers or artists, I'm left with the impression that there is a much better chance than 1 in 100,000 for a first-rate dancer to deliver first-rate performances . . . and for a substantial minority (maybe even majority?) of viewers to recognize fir

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